Let's talk Xs and Os for a minute....

TD TIGER

First of all, let me state my position. For the first 4 years of Brady's tenure, I was a huge supporter - went to the open practices, all the games, etc. After watching his teams overachieve on heart and hustle for the first two years, I was bigtime on board, but once the talent started trickling in, his weaknesses started to become more and more glaring. Now, while I will never waver as an LSU basketball fan, I think Brady is a lousy coach. We can talk about recruiting, attrition, and attitude all day, but in the end these are still somewhat subjective. So, I'd like to get a conversation going about the heart of what makes a good basketball coach - the Xs and Os.

Like I said, I've watched Brady's teams from the beginning, and while you can't judge him on some of the years, the thing I've noticed about all of the years is that the primary offense and defense hasn't changed. And I'm not talking about up tempo or slow-paced. I'm talking about when we get into a half-court set. The fact of the matter is, we stand around, rely on one or two people to create, and don't have an effective offense. Well-coached teams have exposed this over and over. We don't have but maybe one or two plays, and those are run once or twice a game out of timeouts or an occassional out of bounds situation. And, the thing that I really don't understand is that when we have a lead, any size lead at all, with under 5 minutes to go, we go into this spread offense that relies on a bailout play. This is no way to win games. In fact, it's a surefire way to lose over the long-haul.

Now, before you go attacking me, let me also say this. I live in Big 12 country now and watch a ton of games in general. I'm not sure who created the idea that Rick Barnes is such a great coach, but with the talent he has had (not neccessarily this year), he should have won a ton more games. Last night I was watching UT get throttled by OU, and I started seeing the same deficiencies that have plagued Brady's teams. No movement, no plays, just a poor offense that when the shooting is not there, really struggles. So I'm not saying that there are better coaches everywhere, I'm not that stupid. But, what we have now, will continue to fail in the long-run, or in a tourney run.

Also, I don't think this is entirely an offensive problem. Brady preaches "tough, be tough" - just ask any players that have gone through his system. He thinks that being tough is all there is to defense, well it's not. Good positioning and team defense is what wins ballgames. Go watch some film and you will see more and more examples of this.

So Brady supporters and bashers, please, no dancing around the other issues, let's talk Xs and Os.

tirk

you may have had a valid point til LSU went on an 11 of 14 wins run against all SEC teams and Ohio State. Its a good thing they all have crappy coaches and our players win on sheer talent in spite of our coaching staff.

go piss on someone else's parade. preferably a big 12 one, namely texas.

Id rather win the conference with our shi*#y coach than lose with a great one anyday.





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TD TIGER

I think you missed the point tirk. In general, I respect your point of view, but you twisted words on this one.


And that's a great attitude to have. If winning the West is all we want to strive for, and all we hope for, then I guess Brady's our guy.

TD TIGER

And by the way, you didn't touch the "Xs and Os" part of the post, which is what I was hoping someone would.

MikeD

Not having set plays in an offense is not necessarily a bad thing. Instead of the players knowing it's going to be pass, pass, pass, shoot, the offense uses basic principles to get open shots. I'm not an expert but making a defense switch ball screens, dribble handoffs and ball reversals will often lead to an open shot. Sometimes the offense gets stangnant when the players get gassed but it often works well. I mean, the team is 11-3 over last 14 so something must be working.

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gumborue

sure, brady is not a great xs and os coach. you're right. but, significantly better xs and os coaches arent easy to come by. much of "standing around" is because players dont do what they are supposed to do---senior teams do much better. plus brady recruits well.

you're right that there are a lot of deficient coaches out there. many good/great teams have crappy plays at end of games like we do.

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tirk

never said thats all i wanted to strive for...you're mixing my words. I said Id rather win the conference with so-called crappy coach than a great coach such as, say, Billy Donovan and lose.

my point stands. I was ready to write brady off a mere 4 weeks ago as this team showed little signs of life but to bring up the program currently in a negative light is asinine. You must give credit where its due and anyone who does the exact opposite deserves what they get.

you can have any opinion you wish but you need to recognize the coaches and teams accomplishments currently. to try and spin it otherwise is simply wrong. your post is out of touch and out of line and hints of anti-brady regardless his successes. in other words, you come across as a brady basher who will never be pleased. people like you piss me off.

support the team and the program. both deserve it. if not, go pull for auburn.

I can only imagine what you'd say if they were losing.

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TD TIGER

I wouldn't be saying much of anything if Brady were losing. To me it'd be like losing a football game, I wouldn't want to talk about it for days, that's the way I am. I don't get pleasure in bashing him or hoping he leaves. If we had been losing, I would have been as miserable as any of the years I've sat through LSU losing seasons, be it basketball, baseball, or football.

I asked for an Xs and Os evaluation b/c it seems that nobody really ever touches that issue and it's the one thing that usually can not be spun.

Having said that, I'm as ecstatic as I've ever been about getting to watch this team play in mid-late March. And, I have given the team credit, maybe not on some public message board (which apparently is the only measuring stick), but I have indeed given them their due. This post would have never been posted today had I not witnessed what I did last night in the UT game. So, I was really trying to get some perspective, from both sides, because I do think that the Xs and Os, not the talent, will be our ultimate downfall. Call me negative or whatever you want, I'm just trying to be rational for once. Believe me, I hope I'm wrong.

So group me how you want, or get pissed off at fans like me. I asked a thought-provoking question, one that's not the same old Brady argument, and instead got a quick-judged response.

SabanFan

TD Tiger: You're a fan. Nothing more. You are not qualified to speak to the abilities of a div 1 coach who has proven, yes, I said proven, that he can coach. Your dissatisfaction is based upon the fact that he gets beat on occasion. You are a typical bad fan who doesn't understand that you are going to get beat once in a while. I think your premise is ridiculous and is not based on fact. You are a whiner trying to sound smart. Dismissed.

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tirk

Although you may assume its a quick judgment, it is not. you along with many others have posed this question numerous times long before their winning ways this year and even last before jaime left the team. The fact of the matter is John Brady, in one layperson's opinion, is a much better x's and o's coach than dale brown could ever dream but what does it matter? it doesn't....only winning truly matters. you can pretend you know more than any coaching staff and try to point out what they do wrong. its your right as a fan. Yet, it doesnt mean you really know a damned thing.

60 teams will say they were outcoached when its down to the final 4 and everyone will have a case. If they want their coach fired, they will each make your exact point and that can be said for any coach on any level who doesnt win it all.

winning is winning and our team is currently doing so beyond anyone's expectations after the early part of the season. Why would anyone try to criticize the coaching staff and dwell on a negative point when the team has been kicking ass. Id prefer people wait to hide their agenda before showing their hand. If you simply wanted to talk x's and o's, why not start a thread asking how john brady is outcoaching everyone else in the conference and kicking ass?

I agree there are teams who are more aesthetically pleasing, similar to the way Indiana always played under Knight. Passing the ball a minimal 3 times per set, setting screens with reckless abandon and having pure 3 point shooters is simply awesome to watch. Yet, it doesnt equal success. knight's record in the trny over the last decade or so is horrible and he's one of the best x's and o's coach of all time.

although its fun to think we know everything as a fan, we don't.

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roygu

You must have a player that sees the floor and can make the play in order to look like a Coach. Do you remeber the role Rickey Blanton played when he and CJ were leading LSU? Blanton could take the ball make a pass, set a screen and fill the lane. When he left we had all those talented freshmen and no one could do all the things Blanton could do.

Once LSU gets a point guard that sees the entire court and a shooting guard that can shoot like the guy at Duke it opens many options. I remember when Stromile was playing with Beshera, J Smith and that group we ran set plays out of bounds that were extremely successful.

We are not that far away. Maybe Voogd will be the answer.

Jeffinbama

most of you are better qualified to keep x's and o's in your tic-tac-toe games.

If any of you follow college basketball and understand it... defense rules in college basketball now. Hard defense makes it difficult for teams to run the sets they are trying to run. Too much one on one ball being played for my tastes. Kids these days watch ESPN and think that being a good offensive player means dunking the ball. See the NBA now that almost 3 players per team are from Croatia etc. (read this line again)

Offensive skills are a lost art. Being a good fundamental basketball player is not important anymore. How often do you see a guy being able to drive and put up a jumper? They are few and far between.

If you want good x's and o's go to watch the womens games. They play fundamental basketball like it used to be.

USChater

I could not agree with you anymore. I feel the same way about Brady. I will support him and the team but you said exactly what I think.

USChater

Hold on now. I got an email from tejas tiger telling me not to name call on this site. He said we all have opinions so I sure hope u get the same email I got or is your opinion better than the rest of us.

USChater

And one more thing. I am qualified to disscuss Brady's performance. I coached against him when I was a coach at Eunice High and he was at Crowley High. I agree with some of the points TD Tiger made. That doesnt mean I know more than Brady and Im sure I dont. But if your going to tell me he is a great x and o coach I disagree. Anyway, I am pulling like hell for him and the team.

Dirt Dog

I know Brady used a 5 out series when he first got started here, didn't have a big man. He has gone to some 4 out 1 in, and recently even 3 out 2 in with Big Baby and Basss on the blocks. When watching the games on tv, it's hard to see what they are running, better to go to the games to see the movement.

Man Offense - with what I have seen over the years, he runs a motion offense, rather than a continuity offense, like the Flex which Bama was running a good bit last week.

Zone Offense - he runs a variety of things like motion, short corner, hi-lo, and overload. Against a zone I wish more players would flash to the high post more, don't see enough of that.

SabanFan

What are you doing now and what is Brady doing now?

I called him a bad fan, which he appears to be. And, yes, my opinion is better than the rest because I am "The Voice of Reason".

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USChater

Aren't you supposed to be on a Dolphin's web site or something.

BigMamou

Tirk I love ya man, you pulled the word right out of my mouth. Just win Baby. I hate these proud UT fan here in Austin they are "so great" but never win due to some BS....

MiketheTiger69

The difference between this team now (winning) and earlier (losing) is DEFENSE. Every coach who knows anything from John Wooden to your basic little league coach will tell you that DEFENSE wins games and that playing defense is an attitude, you have to really want to do it and you have to work at it. Dale Brown used to preach this constantly. Most players today are lazy when it comes to playing defense, thinking they can make up for it on the offensive end. No matter how talented a player is offensively, if he doesn't play the other end aggressively, he (and the team) is not going to be successful. These players seem to have finally figured that out and I am sure JB has been preaching that all along, but if they won't listen, he and the other coaches can preach it til they are blue in the face and and it won't matter.

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gumborue

i agree with you mostly. lately the d has been much better, but even after the USM, WV, UH, Utah and Bama losses this team won with bad d. When things began to turn around (USC, Ohio St and Ark wins) in my opinion are when davis became more adjusted. he helped on d, but i think we won those games more because of improved O (offensive rebounding). i know it was 2OT, but Ohio St scored 100 on us. the team improved more when minor settled down and bass became more consistent. finally, during the recent impressive run (MSU, UF, and Bama) perimeter d really stepped up--mitch especially. i am hoping for two final areas of improvement--1) consistent attack of the zone d with passes to flasher at the foul line and quick passes out of the double team on the blocks. 2) hitting outside shots.

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TD TIGER

I don't think you truly understand my point or the situation. I'm not pretending to be an expert. All I know is what I've seen with my own eyes, year after year after year. I've played basketball all my life, I've coached it, and I've watched enough basketball to understand the underlying concepts and know that this team lacks execution on certain aspects of the game. I've also seen enough talented teams with poor coaches and good teams with excellent coaches to realize the characteristics that differentiate the two.

Don't mistake my questioning for dwelling on the negative, that's far from what I'm doing. What you don't seem to understand is that while this team is winning, all it takes is one loss in the tourney and the season is over. Like Skip always did, you try to prepare your team for the post-season while making sure you get there. When doing this, you scout yourself and try to find you own tendencies and weaknesses. The tendencies and weaknesses that I see are some of the same I've seen over Brady's tenure. A well-coached team will exploit these. So while it may appear that all things are rosey, I'd rather remain guarded because I have been disappointed time and time again. And don't confuse this for someone who can't enjoy the winning as I'm enjoying it as much or more than the Brady lovers. In fact, I've already made arrangements for Oklahoma City and Austin, just in the hope that we end up there. I wouldn't say this is the action of someone who is dwelling on the negative.

I agree with you that in the end winning is winning and it doesn't really matter how you look. The problem is that well-coached teams win ugly when they have a bad night while many teams that aren't well-coached win or lose ugly on most nights. And having said that, for the most part, we've been winning lately without looking ugly - but that hasn't been the norm under Brady.

This is a ridiculous statement and you know it. Without a certain level of talent, it doesn't matter how well-coached you are.

And I have to go back to one other thing you said:

I may piss you off, but I can tell you one thing, if you knew me, you would only wish there were more fans like me. Not too many fans brought a walkman to school when they were 7 years old just so they could listen to LSU play in an SEC tournament game during lunch and between classes. Not too many fans make a deal with their brother when they're 13 to do all of the chores for 6 months just to be able to go to a game with their dad when it wasn't their turn to go. I could go on and on. I'm not trying to say I'm a better fan than you or anyone, I'm just saying that you will be hard pressed to find one who cares more than I do. And that is exactly the reason why I am concerned at this point. I can enjoy the winning and success as much as anyone, and I am. But, I will not withhold criticism just because we are in the midst of a great run, the same way I wouldn't withhold praise if we were in the midst of a bad run.

It just amazes me over and over how quick we are to forget as fans - the good and the bad.

TD TIGER

Your judgements are misguided and completely wrong. And I am a fan, and as one, I have the right to critisize the bad as well as praise the good.

Go watch some game film and you will find my premise is based LARGELY on facts. And for a premise that you called ridiculous and not based on fact, you sure as hell providing nothing to the dispute it. Please forgive me for not being myopic. You're dismissed.

TD TIGER

Thanks for your support USChater. Unfortunately, your comments are not welcome here because they are too rational and based too greatly on your first-hand experiences. How can you, as a rational being, and coach (former or current), be qualified to critisize or comment on another coach. Unless you are Phil Jackson, John Wooden, or Dean Smith please keep all criticism off this board.

tirk

[QUOTE=TD TIGER] you contradict yourself here:




LSU has beaten many well coached teams during this run and many have been very well-played, well-coached games. LSU has also won a couple of ugly games.


Name a team who's fanbase can't repeat the exact things you say. Basically, you're just apprehensive because odds are this team won't make it to the NC game nor will all but 2. That's the reality of it. I dont doubt you're a true LSU fan, its just you need to be a little more positive because if you can't be presently, you never will. Not as far as basketball goes.


and yes, you're overanalyzing and overlooking reality. LSU is one of the hottest teams in the country, playing their asses off for their coach, showing great team chemistry, growth and great progress. there is almost absolutely nothing to be critical about. Enjoy the success, even with hesistancy. None of us truly think we're going to win it all but we sure as hell can enjoy the ride.

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