'Wildcat' formation

fanatic · 11-24-2006, 08:31 PM

First off, if I hear Verne Lundquist say that one more time, I think I'll puke. I tried to put it on 870am, but they had about a 20 second delay from the telecast.

Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half. I thought it was a real tactical blunder on Ark. part to abandon this formation; first on the 4th down 3 call and then on the game's last series. I'm not critizing the D. They could give up a million yards and I wouldn't care as long as we won. But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

NoLimitMD · 11-24-2006, 08:34 PM

I would compare it to CBs covering WRs. The WRs ALWAYS have the advantage, because they know where they're going. Arkansas was able to take that advantage behind the line, and with TWO guys with their speed, the defense couldn't get a jump on the direction of the play. They either stay in the middle and get beaten outside, or vice versa. And the Arkansas players did a great job of executing the scheme with some pretty good seal off blocks.

I'll be curious what some of the folks here have to say, because I too, thought it was a very interesting dynamic in this game.

clair · 11-24-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLimitMD

I would compare it to CBs covering WRs. The WRs ALWAYS have the advantage, because they know where they're going. Arkansas was able to take that advantage behind the line, and with TWO guys with their speed, the defense couldn't get a jump on the direction of the play. They either stay in the middle and get beaten outside, or vice versa. And the Arkansas players did a great job of executing the scheme with some pretty good seal off blocks.

I'll be curious what some of the folks here have to say, because I too, thought it was a very interesting dynamic in this game.

I would have liked to have seen LaRon playing some LB in these sets, because McFadden can throw decent, but by no means could he have picked us apart.

The problem is that we didn't and don't know when or where these plays were coming, because if I'm not mistaken, the QB slots out to WR on them.

DownOnTheBayou · 11-24-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

First off, if I hear Verne Lundquist say that one more time, I think I'll puke. I tried to put it on 870am, but they had about a 20 second delay from the telecast.

Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half. I thought it was a real tactical blunder on Ark. part to abandon this formation; first on the 4th down 3 call and then on the game's last series. I'm not critizing the D. They could give up a million yards and I wouldn't care as long as we won. But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

I don't think any team could stop this offense. Only Nutt could himself. If LSU would not have had 2 TO, they probably would've scored on those 2 drives. That would have put Ark in pass mode. But the TO kept them in the game. If McFadden ever gets hurt, and I hope he doesn't, Ark will be crap. He is that team.

Bengal Buddy · 11-24-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

First off, if I hear Verne Lundquist say that one more time, I think I'll puke. I tried to put it on 870am, but they had about a 20 second delay from the telecast.

Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half. I thought it was a real tactical blunder on Ark. part to abandon this formation; first on the 4th down 3 call and then on the game's last series. I'm not critizing the D. They could give up a million yards and I wouldn't care as long as we won. But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

I turn down the TV and listen to the game on radio.

NoLimitMD · 11-24-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgisclair

I would have liked to have seen LaRon playing some LB in these sets, because McFadden can throw decent, but by no means could he have picked us apart.

The problem is that we didn't and don't know when or where these plays were coming, because if I'm not mistaken, the QB slots out to WR on them.

It looked like Laron was lining up like an OLB on the strong side more often than not. However, Arkansas really did a great job of sealing him off long enough to run by him. And with that speed, that doesn't take too long. It was maddening, because it looked like the LSU guys were lining up in the right places, and STILL couldn't stop it!

Disclaimer: This is just from watching the game once. I'm sure there are more specific answers to be found during a rewatch.

TwistedTiger · 11-24-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half.

In every other game this year I saw LSU D linemen and LB's running down running backs before they turned the corner. Not today, today even out DB's had a hard time getting there in time to stop those two from getting to the edge and turning it upfield. Make no mistake, both of the arky RB's are the real deal and deserve a ton of credit. I wonder if bringing in and extra safety to shadow the RB like D's use a spy to shadow a running QB would have helped any. I didn't see many DL's or LB's get more than a sniff of McFadden on most of the running plays to the outside, he's gooooooooood.

islstl · 11-24-2006, 08:57 PM

Damn that wildcat formation, damn it all to hell!!!!!

And hell it gave us.

If I am an Arkansas fan, I am drooling for next season to begin. They should be ranked in the top 8.

fanatic · 11-24-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengal Buddy

I turn down the TV and listen to the game on radio.

As I mentioned in the original thread, I tried to do this. But the radio telecast was about 20 seconds behind the TV telecast. On Holliday's KR, he was already in the endzone on TV before he even caught the ball on radio.

islstl · 11-24-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

As I mentioned in the original thread, I tried to do this. But the radio telecast was about 20 seconds behind the TV telecast. On Holliday's KR, he was already in the endzone on TV before he even caught the ball on radio.

that really sucks.

clair · 11-24-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

As I mentioned in the original thread, I tried to do this. But the radio telecast was about 20 seconds behind the TV telecast. On Holliday's KR, he was already in the endzone on TV before he even caught the ball on radio.

here in the N.O. tv area, if you watch it on WWLTV Channel 4, they delay the game for 5-6 secs, so it can be even with their radio, because they own both the TV and the radio station

fanatic · 11-24-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLimitMD

It looked like Laron was lining up like an OLB on the strong side more often than not. However, Arkansas really did a great job of sealing him off long enough to run by him. And with that speed, that doesn't take too long. It was maddening, because it looked like the LSU guys were lining up in the right places, and STILL couldn't stop it!

Disclaimer: This is just from watching the game once. I'm sure there are more specific answers to be found during a rewatch.

I agree whole-heartedly. But from my perspective as just a hardcore fan who knows absolutely zero about coordinating a defense; it seemed like those fakes and handoffs took an eternity to develop. Again, I know nothing about coordinating a D and don't pretend that I do, but it seems like if we could've got some pressure up the middle; it would've disrutped every play they ran from that set. I guess it's a risk/reward type of thing. If we blitz and don't make the play, it's probably a TD. I guess it's better to read/react in that situation.

fanatic · 11-24-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgisclair

here in the N.O. tv area, if you watch it on WWLTV Channel 4, they delay the game for 5-6 secs, so it can be even with their radio, because they own both the TV and the radio station

I'm on the MS Gulf Coast. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. I'd much rather listen to Hawthorne (even though I think he's lost a step) and Morreau (sp?) than those CBS honks, but it just didn't work out that way. At least Gary Danielson was giving LSU and the SEC it's props; which made it a little easier on the ears.

islstl · 11-24-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

As I mentioned in the original thread, I tried to do this. But the radio telecast was about 20 seconds behind the TV telecast. On Holliday's KR, he was already in the endzone on TV before he even caught the ball on radio.

If you had TIVO/DVR, you could have synched it as close as possible to match the Radio (pause the video until the radio catches up to it).

Did anyone do this? I am sure it worked pretty well.

houtiger · 11-24-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

Speed. It's hard to defense speed, its not a formation thing, you either have speed (McFaden and Jones) or you don't. They kept running these guys from a wide out position in front of the QB standing back in the shotgun and they had a running start when they took the handoff. The defenders were all standing still. The runner had a big advantage getting to the corner to turn upfield, and with their natural speed it was very hard to catch them.

Both running backs had excellent speed and power. They mostly raced us to the corners and won the race. They had more trouble running inside and that would cost them a down (except for McFaden's 80 yd burst for TD), and their passing attempts were attrocious, usually costing them a down.

friedriches · 11-24-2006, 09:25 PM

I find that the Wildcat wasn't what we couldn't stop. Cause we did. What we couldn't stop was the wildcat when they ran to the outside.

Who got high school football in my NCAA?

BTW if this formation is in NCAA Football 2008 I just might hurt Houston Nutt.

GarlicMeatball · 11-24-2006, 09:28 PM

Watch the replay tommorrow the ends kept crashing down inside all day...leaving the outside wide open and those backs proved to fast for the OLBs (Ali out early and Beckwith not 100%)......but I thought for sure the coaches would correct this at half but no the entire game the ends kept collapsing and not forcing the RBs up the middle.

But I have to agree with the game on the line on 4 and 3 how Nutt did not put the ball into either MacFadden's hands or Felix Jones' is unthinkable.

But all in all have to give credit to one of the best RB duos that I can remember in recent history.....they may not be as flashy as Bush and White were at USC but I would take them on my team any day over those two, and they certainly give Ronnie Brown and Cadallac Williams a run for their money as well.

lsutiga · 11-24-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarlicMeatball

Watch the replay tommorrow the ends kept crashing down inside all day...leaving the outside wide open and those backs proved to fast for the OLBs (Ali out early and Beckwith not 100%)......but I thought for sure the coaches would correct this at half but no the entire game the ends kept collapsing and not forcing the RBs up the middle.

But I have to agree with the game on the line on 4 and 3 how Nutt did not put the ball into either MacFadden's hands or Felix Jones' is unthinkable.

But all in all have to give credit to one of the best RB duos that I can remember in recent history.....they may not be as flashy as Bush and White were at USC but I would take them on my team any day over those two, and they certainly give Ronnie Brown and Cadallac Williams a run for their money as well.

I agree and it seems they'd at least go to what was effective, at least once, with the chance of getting out of bounds. They had time for one and had they gotten OOB to stop clock.....

lsudolemite · 11-24-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houtiger

Speed. It's hard to defense speed, its not a formation thing, you either have speed (McFaden and Jones) or you don't. They kept running these guys from a wide out position in front of the QB standing back in the shotgun and they had a running start when they took the handoff. The defenders were all standing still. The runner had a big advantage getting to the corner to turn upfield, and with their natural speed it was very hard to catch them.

Both running backs had excellent speed and power. They mostly raced us to the corners and won the race. They had more trouble running inside and that would cost them a down (except for McFaden's 80 yd burst for TD), and their passing attempts were attrocious, usually costing them a down.

Right on the money. Arky with their tremendous RBs were able to exploit a weakness that showed up a couple of times in the Bama and Ole Miss games: a lack of speed by OLBs and CBs when it comes to sealing outside runs. Zenon and Chevis Jackson are solid coverage CBs, but just aren't strong tacklers. Going up against RBs like the ones Arky has, and it's a mismatch every time.

I also think another key factor to Arkansas's success on the ground, which has been very underrated IMO, is their veteran OL, which opened up a hell of a lot of running room today.

As for Verne's running the "wildcat" formation into the ground, it reminded me of David Pollack, that guy's motor NEVER stops running.

NoLimitMD · 11-24-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarlicMeatball

Watch the replay tommorrow the ends kept crashing down inside all day...leaving the outside wide open and those backs proved to fast for the OLBs (Ali out early and Beckwith not 100%)......but I thought for sure the coaches would correct this at half but no the entire game the ends kept collapsing and not forcing the RBs up the middle.

Good point. I don't recall, but I imagine the tackles were railing the D-line into the middle, and Pelini figured at SOME point we could get inside pressure to disrupt the exchange. That's a TD for the defense if it happens. A lot of credit to the Arkansas o-line for not letting that happen. It really was the damnedest thing.

SabanFan · 11-25-2006, 06:07 AM

Bo said that Arkansas used some formations that they hadn't used in any of their previous games. We got surprised coming out of the gate, but adjustments were made.

TigerWins · 11-25-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic

Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half. I thought it was a real tactical blunder on Ark. part to abandon this formation; first on the 4th down 3 call and then on the game's last series. I'm not critizing the D. They could give up a million yards and I wouldn't care as long as we won. But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

It's difficult to defend b/c it's not something a defense sees very often. We had limited practice time due to the short week and having to travel. Give a good DC two weeks to prepare for this type of offense and they'll shut it down. Give them three days and you get what we saw yesterday.

It's a gimmick offense that will give many defenses fits. I was impressed with their imagination. It would be diffcult to stop if they had a decent QB.

islstl · 11-25-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerWins

It would be diffcult to stop if they had a decent QB.

That's an understatement. Try "virtually impossible".

Them boys were hell (that 2 headed backfield monster, that is).

lp · 11-25-2006, 07:40 AM

Mississippi State held them to 122 yards. The fact that they consistently got to the outside had me puzzled. They are both great backs but you think we would have eventually figured it out.

islstl · 11-25-2006, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lp

Mississippi State held them to 122 yards. The fact that they consistently got to the outside had me puzzled. They are both great backs but you think we would have eventually figured it out.

Makes you wonder if Arkansas wasn't trying to show LSU much of anything vs. MSU and it very nearly cost them (had it not been for those 2 costly MSU turnovers).

11-24-2006, 08:31 PM	#1
fanatic Witnessing History Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a van down by the river. Posts: 4,138	'Wildcat' formation First off, if I hear Verne Lundquist say that one more time, I think I'll puke. I tried to put it on 870am, but they had about a 20 second delay from the telecast. Second, besides Jones and McFadden being the real deal, why weren't we able to stop this. I just KNEW we'd make some halftime adjustments and make them throw in the second half. I thought it was a real tactical blunder on Ark. part to abandon this formation; first on the 4th down 3 call and then on the game's last series. I'm not critizing the D. They could give up a million yards and I wouldn't care as long as we won. But, I'm just wondering what it is about this scheme that caused us so many fits.

11-24-2006, 08:34 PM	#2
NoLimitMD Registered Guest Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 7,553	Re: 'Wildcat' formation I would compare it to CBs covering WRs. The WRs ALWAYS have the advantage, because they know where they're going. Arkansas was able to take that advantage behind the line, and with TWO guys with their speed, the defense couldn't get a jump on the direction of the play. They either stay in the middle and get beaten outside, or vice versa. And the Arkansas players did a great job of executing the scheme with some pretty good seal off blocks. I'll be curious what some of the folks here have to say, because I too, thought it was a very interesting dynamic in this game. __________________ "I'm busy." The Hat

11-24-2006, 08:57 PM	#8
islstl Saints SB 44 Champs! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 26,420	Re: 'Wildcat' formation Damn that wildcat formation, damn it all to hell!!!!! And hell it gave us. If I am an Arkansas fan, I am drooling for next season to begin. They should be ranked in the top 8.

11-24-2006, 09:28 PM	#17
GarlicMeatball Registered Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 134	Re: 'Wildcat' formation Watch the replay tommorrow the ends kept crashing down inside all day...leaving the outside wide open and those backs proved to fast for the OLBs (Ali out early and Beckwith not 100%)......but I thought for sure the coaches would correct this at half but no the entire game the ends kept collapsing and not forcing the RBs up the middle. But I have to agree with the game on the line on 4 and 3 how Nutt did not put the ball into either MacFadden's hands or Felix Jones' is unthinkable. But all in all have to give credit to one of the best RB duos that I can remember in recent history.....they may not be as flashy as Bush and White were at USC but I would take them on my team any day over those two, and they certainly give Ronnie Brown and Cadallac Williams a run for their money as well.

11-25-2006, 06:07 AM	#21
SabanFan The voice of reason Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Breaux Bridge, LA Posts: 20,807	Re: 'Wildcat' formation Bo said that Arkansas used some formations that they hadn't used in any of their previous games. We got surprised coming out of the gate, but adjustments were made. __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

11-25-2006, 07:40 AM	#24
lp Registered Guest Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 947	Re: 'Wildcat' formation Mississippi State held them to 122 yards. The fact that they consistently got to the outside had me puzzled. They are both great backs but you think we would have eventually figured it out.

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