I've been thinking about starting this Charlie McClendon thread for a while now (part of my inspiration was when I saw StaceyO compare Coach Les to Coach Mac... talking about how great it was to have a coach like Les that actually wanted to stay here at LSU instead of going to Michigan, just like Coach Mac stayed with us that whole time).

What are your thoughts on Coach McClendon? Loser? Winner? Hero? Zero? Someone to be proud of? A disgrace? Etc?

He was coach of LSU for 18 seasons: '62 to '79. He is now in the College Football Hall of Fame.

During his 18 seasons at LSU, he was 203-137-59 (69.2%), #15 in the NCAA during that time, behind the likes of Michigan, Arkansas, Arizona State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Texas, Nebraska, Southern Cal, and Alabama.

In SEC play, he was 60-41-3 (69.3%)... and he only won one SEC Championship in 18 years (1970). He never won a National Title.

His yearly record as LSU coach:
9-1-1
7-4
8-2-1
8-3
5-4-1
7-3-1
8-3
9-1
9-3 (SEC Champs)
9-3
9-2-1
9-3
5-5-1
4-7 (MSU had to forfeit their win to make it 5-6)
6-4-1 (MSU had to forfeit their win to make it 7-3-1)
8-4
8-4
7-5

During his first 5 seasons he was 37-14-3 (71.3%), #18 in the NCAA during that time.

Compare to Saban during his 5 seasons at LSU: 48-16 (75.0%)

Compare to Miles during his first 5 seasons at LSU so far: 46-12 (79.3%)

My thoughts:

Especially over these last couple weeks (but it has been going on since Saban left), I see all these people disappointed with Les, that have lost faith in Les, that want Les gone, etc. And I see people talk about how we aren't going to accept mediocrity at LSU and yada yada yada. And I love Coach Mac, and I wonder what the people whining about how we aren't going to accept "mediocrity" thought about Coach Mac.

A lot of people and I love Coach Mac. And I wish it was like that with Coach Les as well (like some LSU fan on another LSU forum was saying, LSU fans always think the grass is greener after the grass all blows away... and he was talking about how after Les is gone, we will all be talking about how "the Trusty Hat could do no wrong").

My point:

1) Charlie Mac was a great coach, and I'd think that most LSU fans agree with me on that.

2) Being that Les has done better than Charlie Mac did at this point in Coach Mac's career, what is with the loss of faith in Coach Miles, the talk about Les like he is a disappointment to LSU?

What do I mean by saying that Les has done better than Coach Mac at this point in Coach Mac's career?

Well, let's compare the Saban-to-Miles transition to the Dietzel-to-McClendon transition:

LSU had very high expectations when McClendon took over.

LSU had very high expectations when Miles took over.

A) the Dietzel-to-McClendon transition

In the four seasons before McClendon became LSU head coach (1958-1961), LSU was 35-7-1 (82.6%), #5 in the NCAA during that time...LSU won one National Title ('58) and two SEC Championships ('58 and '61).

Then McClendon took over and LSU went 32-10-2 during his first 4 seasons (75.0%), #12 in the NCAA. During McClendon's first 5 seasons he was 37-14-3 (71.3%), #18 in the NCAA during that time.

B) the Saban-to-Miles transition

In the four seasons before Miles became LSU head coach (2001-2004), LSU was 40-12 (76.9%)...LSU won a second National Title ('03).

Then Miles took over and LSU went 42-11 during his first four seasons (79.2%)... LSU won a third National Title ('07).

82.6% to 75.0%/71.3% with Dietzel to Mac compared to 76.9% to 79.2% with Saban to Les. Do you think Miles will continue to do better than Coach Mac? Or do you think Miles will end up doing worse than Coach Mac?






Louisiana State coach Charlie McClendon on sidelines during game vs Texas A&M. Baton Rouge, LA 9/21/1968

He was a good solid head coach and if you were satisfied with playing 2nd fiddle to Alabama, he was your perfect head coach. I can't remember the stat, but I think we either had only 1 win, 1 tie or no wins vs Alabama during his tenure at LSU.

It's all a matter of your expectations and your desires for whatever level of greatness you wanted for the LSU football program.

He was a great coach, but never really seemed to get over the hump. The Bear was his nemesis for sure.

We played in some major bowls early on, in the 60's, he upset both Texas and R-Kansas, both in the Cotton, and we beat Syracuse and Wyoming in the Sugar Bowl.

In the early 70's we then played in the Orange and lost to both Penn State and Nebraska when they has powerhouse teams.

IMO one of the things that turned his career for the worse was when Mike Miley (RIP) decided to play major league BB instead of take over as the starting QB for the 1974 season.

We had a decent D, but the O never could score. Sound familiar?

He never really turned the corner on that and finished his career on a skid, never appearing in a major bowl again, which is why he was forced out eventually.

Sadly, his best team, the 1970 squad that went 9-1, was squeezed out of the Cotton because Notre Dame decided to end their 44 year self-imposed bowl ban. The loss? To Archie Who.

RIP Chollie Mac. You were a good man.

He only had a 2-14 record against Bear Bryant's Alabama (1958-1982), and Bama was the only team in the SEC that had a better win pct than LSU during the McClendon era. In fact, Bama had the #1 win pct in the NCAA during the McClendon era.

From 1962-1979:

SEC
#1 Bama (84.4%) -- #1 in the NCAA
#2 LSU (69.2%) -- #15 in the NCAA
#3 Tennessee (66.1%) -- #19 in the NCAA
#4 Georgia (65.0%) -- #23 in the NCAA
#5 Auburn (63.8%) -- #26 in the NCAA
#6 Ole Miss (60.5%) -- #33 in the NCAA
#7 Florida (59.6%) -- #34 in the NCAA
#8 Vandy (31.7%) -- #109 in the NCAA
(Arkansas and South Carolina didn't join the SEC until the early 90's)

Cholly Mc beat the Bear twice in the late '60s. No SEC coach had a winning record against the Bear that I know of that coached more than several games.

This poll is an insult to Coach McClendon. He was a winner. No he never won a national championship but there are tons of good coaches that didn't. Disappointment, you have got to be kidding.

LSU had very high expectations when McClendon took over.

A big reason why McClendon was made head coach was because he was an LSU assistant coach since 1953. In the four seasons before McClendon became LSU head coach (1958-1961), LSU was 35-7-1 (82.6%), #5 in the NCAA during that time...LSU won one National Title ('58) and two SEC Championships ('58 and '61)... and LSU was undefeated vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

Then McClendon took over and LSU went 32-10-2 during his first 4 seasons (75.0%), #12 in the NCAA. During McClendon's entire 18 seasons as LSU head coach, LSU only one 1 SEC Championship and zero National Championships... and was only 2-14 vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

For that day and time, i would have to say Cholly Mac was indeed a Great LSU Tiger. 1 for did LSU proud.

Beat me to it. I was going to say that I find this poll offensive.

How so, exactly? Again:

LSU had very high expectations when McClendon took over.

A big reason why McClendon was made head coach was because he was an LSU assistant coach since 1953. In the four seasons before McClendon became LSU head coach (1958-1961), LSU was 35-7-1 (82.6%), #5 in the NCAA during that time...LSU won one National Title ('58) and two SEC Championships ('58 and '61)... and LSU was undefeated vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

Then McClendon took over and LSU went 32-10-2 during his first 4 seasons (75.0%), #12 in the NCAA. During McClendon's entire 18 seasons as LSU head coach, LSU only one 1 SEC Championship and zero National Championships... and was only 2-14 vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

During his first 5 seasons he was 37-14-3 (71.3%), #18 in the NCAA during that time.

Compare to Saban during his 5 seasons at LSU: 48-16 (75.0%)

Compare to Miles during his first 5 seasons at LSU so far: 46-12 (79.3%)

Most fans were different back then. Times were different too. No internet, daily talk shows etc. We didn't hang Cholly out to dry. We gave Bryant credit for being a great coach.

EVERYBODY lost to Bryant!
He won at Kentucky and never had a losing season!

If it weren't for the BCS, LSU (and saban) would not have a national championship this decade.

I grew up admiring Charlie Mac because my dad admired him. He was very good with the Louisiana high school coaches, so my dad was always a fan.

But the people in Baton Rouge were on him constantly just like they are on Miles--and worse. Remember all the "Help Mac Pack" bumper stickers? They were prolific. My entire early childhood is filled with memories of hearing how badly Charlie Mac sucked.

One time, he came to a Catholic High game, to watch or scout, and a woman stood up and yelled, "Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar, all for Mac, lay down and 'waller'." I was 7 and thought she had no class.

One of my uncles couldn't say a kind word about him and now speaks of Mac reverently.

We're doing this same thing to Miles, in my opinion. All I know is that after Mac was forced out, it was nearly 25 years before LSU became relevant in college football again.

Let's compare the Saban-to-Miles transition to the Dietzel-to-McClendon transition:

LSU had very high expectations when McClendon took over.

LSU had very high expectation when Miles took over.

In the four seasons before McClendon became LSU head coach (1958-1961), LSU was 35-7-1 (82.6%), #5 in the NCAA during that time...LSU won one National Title ('58) and two SEC Championships ('58 and '61)... and LSU was undefeated vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

Then McClendon took over and LSU went 32-10-2 during his first 4 seasons (75.0%), #12 in the NCAA. During McClendon's first 5 seasons he was 37-14-3 (71.3%), #18 in the NCAA during that time. During McClendon's entire 18 seasons as LSU head coach, LSU only one 1 SEC Championship and zero National Championships... and was only 2-14 vs. Bear Bryant's Alabama.

In the four seasons before Miles became LSU head coach (2001-2004), LSU was 40-12 (76.9%)...LSU won a second National Title ('03).

Then Miles took over and LSU went 42-11 during his first four seasons (79.2%)... LSU won a third National Title ('07).

82.6% to 75.0%, and McClendon is a hero? 76.9% to 79.2% and Miles is a zero?

5 seasons a piece Saban lost 16, Miles lost 12, and Cholly Mac lost 14 games. I might point out that if the NCAA had the same rules for Overtime as it did during Mac's first 5 season's, Miles' record could easily be a hell of alot worse. Key stat is Losses. Cholly coached less games per season, and lost less games than Saban did, and only 2 more losses than Miles.

John, SF hit the nail on the head.

Happy to see the response so far. Coach Cholly was who led the Tigers during my youth and the beginning of my love for the Tigers. In his era he was a top coach and made Tiger nation proud. I think much of his spirit is what drives this program today.

How so? LSU Nation didn't have the negative whiners a few decades ago that we have today? Humanity as a whole was better back then? I doubt it. I'm sure LSU had the same negative whiners back then that we have today. But I do agree that the internet and radio talk shows gives these negative whiners a bigger forum to be heard.

For example, look at this post I read on here the other day that didn't seem to bother any of you people that are bothered now (and it bothered me):

Some of the best days of my life....OM and LSU were both usually in the top ten if not top five. Gentleman Johnny Vaught and "Cholly Mac." Football at it's best. No BCS. No bs.....just top notch football.

But remember how Bama was undefeated for so long? I like Bear and respected him. On his tv show, each week, he would play back the game and say things like "I saw Paul Ott's mom and dad at the game. Good to see them." He made them feel like family. Smart move. He would sit there reviewing the game, eating Lay's potatoe chips, and drinking Coke (more than likely SPIKED. But the kid's wanted to play for him. Even if they knew they would be third team or so for a time. They knew that they had a good chance for championship rings.

But we need to remember part of what made Bear famous. Bama handed out unlimited schollys. Bama's third and fourth team could have started in many places. Eventually, here came the scholly limitations.

Bear vs Gentleman Johnny Vaught....Johnny Vaught vs Cholly Mac. Cholly Mac vs the Bear..........damn good times. Was hard to get the Northern votes in the polls.....they usually wanted Michigan or Notre Dame. ND would not join any conference OR play in a bowl...

I don't remember any of these three coaches talking smack against the other. What was it Bear said about LSU? Something about Tiger Stadium being the hardest place in the world to play football?

No.............I have nothing but RESPECT for Mr. Charles McClendon. And YOUR TIGERS from yesteryears to today. Part of that coming from the coaching abilities of Coach Mac.

Can you name me ONE other former LSU coach who LOVED LSU as much as Coach Mac? Pepsident Paul? Saban? They left on their own. LSU let Coach Mac go and to the very best of my knowledge, he NEVER said a harmful or derogatory word about his beloved LSU TIGERS. As a bowl commisioner, he helped when he could. He DIED an LSU TIGER. RIP

The more I get to thinking about this.......
we are comparing apples and oranges..
In coach Mac's day, how many 300 lb linemen does anyone remember? 300 lbs and able to really run well? I don't recall any, even the All Americans. A large tackle was what? 225? LBs are larger than that now. Anyone remember Jake Gibbs from OM? AA in football and baseball. Not a large man. QBs his size are often told they are too small now. I'm not saying people like LSU's Casanova couldn't play today. He, and others, would have training and diets not available then. Too much a man not to have been able to play now.

What about the speed of today's players? Not there then. Joe LaBruzo (?) was fast but I think his speed would not be so unusual today. Hint: T Holiday. If the players evolve as much in the next fifty years as they did the past fifty, please, some of you young posters make some dvds and bring them when you come to Heaven.

How about the introduction of the black atheletes? Can anyone say that they haven't made a difference? Back then, I could not imagine someone as big as JR coming in the gym and telling the coach that he wants to be a qb. Yeah, right son. Just stand over here next to this guard.

OK, I vented enough. JUST GOOD MEMORIES I guess.

Oh there were some, but they reared their heads in the stands at the games and were largely beaten back by the majority who wouldn't put up with that crap. Since anonymity was denied, most whiners chose to keep their thoughts to themselves. There was some discourse in Sports Page letters to the editor but largely positive until the final 3 years of Mac's tenure. The Help Mac Pack bunch organized after Mike Miley left a year early and Cholly was stuck with no QB to run his veer. They ran him off and the program didn't recover for decades.