Interesting comparison Miles to Mack Brown

stevescookin · 12-18-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerCliff

Ciron Black was the best guard in college then they switched him to tackle and now we have an above average tackle instead of the best guard in college football.

????????????????????

I was thinking Mr Black was a 4 year starter at LT

I thought there was a position switch involved with him...maybe he stayed at tackle but switched sides of the line?

TGer'nLHornLand · 12-20-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu-i-like

For the longest time Mack Brown had trouble capitalizing on his success and winning the big game despite having his pick of the litter recruiting. The state of Texas doesn't really have "down years" in terms of the quality of recruits available. Remember he used to be called "Mr February"? That Mack Brown has Texas playing at a pretty high level shows that he won't drive his program into the ground, but it could be argued that his opponents aren't playing at the same high level that they have been, particularly Oklahoma. In the end, however, I simply believe that while Mack Brown has been pretty consistent in keeping Texas a top 10/20 team, he isn't realizing what Texas is capable of. Texas really seems like the top program in the country to me (in terms of potential). And Stoops has shown his frailties, so don't assume I'd give him a pass.

For you, and the rest of the Miles haters in this thread, I think this is what it comes down to. First off, folks somehow think that if a school has good recruiting classes or recruiting base, then somehow they are "predestined" to win a NC. This just isn't the case, considering how recruiting classes are a mythical thing.

Same issue that haunts Texas, may haunt LSU in your minds... these #1, #2 recruiting classes have fans assuming that they have the talent to win it all. But, a lot of luck, coaching, schedules and a host of other things (injuries, players not panning out, for example) play into winning a NC. AND, hence the perception that somehow Mack has "underachieved" and Miles has "underachieved." But, I ask you, if you don't look at W-L records, then what is then the "objective" test? How they look on the field to you? Like a 13-12 win against Nebraska? Well, no way I can dispute that--you just don't think that a close Miles or Mack win is "good enough" for you. What about Urban's smack down by Bama this year? Or, Saban's smack down by Utah last year?

But, if you believe the pursuit of the CFB NC is one of year after year dominance, guess again. NO program can win back to back to back championships and "utilize" to the fullest extent it's talent. Just ask Urban Meyer. Sure, he's won two national championships in a short period of time... but let's see how long it takes him to win another one. Perhaps he LEAVES before UF can win another one. Likewise, people point at Saban as being the "better" coach than Miles... not according to the overall win record. Again, we'll also see over time what happens. Now Mack certainly has his critics. But, to say that Texas has "underachieved" would also fail to respect how quickly a program that is "pre-ordained" for success because of recruiting. Just ask John Mackovic, or the coach prior to him. You seem to not understand how long Texas fans actually had to wait for the 2005 NC, despite it's "hotbed" of talent. Mack has brought stability, a vision of a family based program, recruiting success and winning back to Texas. Just as Miles to the same extent has brought consistency, if not facing a true "rebuilding" effort, to the LSU program. He's arguably also brought respectability, a program where players and coaches like to be in, and he's not a coach that is simply looking for the next jump like Saban was. There is more to the program then pure "coaching wattage" of the headman.

I guess my overall point is, there's no way I can convince the Miles haters to believe that he is a better coach than some of the "other" guys. But, let's all acknowledge what the criteria is, in some objective fashion. If it's winning, I think LSU fans can't complain--there are few CFB programs in the past decade which compare (that's arguably, LSU, UF, OSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma). I think that's the only thing that matters, I believe at the end of the day. And, Miles has fared reasonably well in this crowd, as has Mack.

LSUFanZone · 12-21-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleAve

I don't consider that a signature win because it was the Peach Bowl against the 2nd or 3rd best team in the ACC. It was a good win, but i am talking about a win against a top 10 or top 5 team. Maybe Tech was top 10 i cant remember, but i think the last top 5 team LSU beat was Ohio State? We just haven't been winning the big games in the last 2 years. We have been right there, but couldn't finish the game.

What about Miami in 05-06... we demolished them and we were severe underdogs. That was Miles first year and coming off an Iowa loss the bowl before. Not to mention that was Miles' start to his current undefeated record in OOC play. I'd say that a signature win... his signature is outside of the SEC you don't have a chance.

BAY0U BENGAL · 12-21-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGer'nLHornLand

But, I ask you, if you don't look at W-L records, then what is then the "objective" test? How they look on the field to you?

They're looking for total dominance. Blowing out opponents 56-0. Most of them don't take into consideration that all this change in coaching (which in the long-run is needed) in such a short period of time, is not helping the cause. The co-DC's didn't work out and we got Chavis. Awesome, but right now, it's a band-aid until the schemes sink in. And it's like that in other situations. I'm with you, if they don't look at the W/L then there's no reason to even discuss with them.

Quote:

I guess my overall point is, there's no way I can convince the Miles haters to believe that he is a better coach than some of the "other" guys.

I've said it before - most of them didn't want Miles or feel he didn't deserve it and so he'll never be accepted. They can't be pleased, and unless something drastic happens, a coach gets canned, then they won't be happy.

lsu-i-like · 12-21-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGer'nLHornLand

For you, and the rest of the Miles haters in this thread, I think this is what it comes down to. First off, folks somehow think that if a school has good recruiting classes or recruiting base, then somehow they are "predestined" to win a NC. This just isn't the case, considering how recruiting classes are a mythical thing.

Same issue that haunts Texas, may haunt LSU in your minds... these #1, #2 recruiting classes have fans assuming that they have the talent to win it all. But, a lot of luck, coaching, schedules and a host of other things (injuries, players not panning out, for example) play into winning a NC. AND, hence the perception that somehow Mack has "underachieved" and Miles has "underachieved." But, I ask you, if you don't look at W-L records, then what is then the "objective" test? How they look on the field to you? Like a 13-12 win against Nebraska? Well, no way I can dispute that--you just don't think that a close Miles or Mack win is "good enough" for you. What about Urban's smack down by Bama this year? Or, Saban's smack down by Utah last year?

I appreciate your well thought out reply. I'm not a doubter just to be frustrating to all the folks that like Miles, I am speaking out of genuine concern.

I don't expect LSU to win a NC every year, or to even contend year in and year out. In general, however, I'd like to see disciplined play, smart play, sound fundamentals, and players progressing throughout their time in the program. I realize we are dealing with college kids who are going to make mistakes, but I don't feel Miles striving for perfection. He seems to take a more lackadasical approach. The players may appreciate it, but not being pushed to be great isn't doing them or our team any favors.

Of course recruiting is an inexact science, but recruiting rankings aren't completely devoid of meaning. Coaches should be able to judge talent on their own and develop it, and I think our style of play indicates our coaching staff isn't doing a good job of one or both of those things.

Everyone is getting on my case about the W/L record. Damn it. When I see a team play I usually get a sense of if that team is playing hard or not. Do you guys not get this gut feeling? I have rarely had this feeling watching Miles' LSU or Brown's Texas. It's more like a glaring disparity in athletic ability, not a strong work ethic and a never-give-up attitude.

I don't recall ever saying Saban or Meyer are perfect. I'm looking at their body of work and the way their teams play in general.

Quote:

I guess my overall point is, there's no way I can convince the Miles haters to believe that he is a better coach than some of the "other" guys. But, let's all acknowledge what the criteria is, in some objective fashion. If it's winning, I think LSU fans can't complain--there are few CFB programs in the past decade which compare (that's arguably, LSU, UF, OSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma). I think that's the only thing that matters, I believe at the end of the day. And, Miles has fared reasonably well in this crowd, as has Mack.

I think the whole point is that we can't really agree on the criteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAY0U BENGAL

I've said it before - most of them didn't want Miles or feel he didn't deserve it and so he'll never be accepted. They can't be pleased, and unless something drastic happens, a coach gets canned, then they won't be happy.

I've said it before, I defended Miles last year after he proved me wrong. I haven't seen enough improvement this year, so my original feelings of doubt (from watching his teams perform, not from preconceived notions) have creeped back in.

stevescookin · 12-22-2009, 03:48 AM

There are "Miles haters" who are reasonable in their observations and there are "Sunshine pumpers who are genuinely concerned. Both camps are being objective.

I know I'm concerned. The Ole Miss game made me want to puke. Russell Shepard not playing till late in the season and not yet throwing a pass just plain out makes me wonder.

I just can't stand it when people just dismiss Miles' accomplishments cavalierly because it suits their position. I hate it when these people call for him to be fired in mid season like Zook.

Saban left us in a mess. His defense was so complicated and depended on multiple players making correct reads that after the NC year, the backups had little experience doing this correctly and that's why we lost all those games. Saban was here long enough to realize that there's very little one can do to keep this fan base happy. I think that's part of why he jumped ship.

Sure, he left us with some talent...but that talent was responsible for the five loss season.

We have to look at the big picture. And the big picture is that despite our problems, we are on the upswing this year compared to last year. Maybe with the coaching changes last year and so far this year, we'll be truly better next year. Maybe the coaching changes aren't finished this year also.

TGer'nLHornLand · 12-22-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu-i-like

I've said it before, I defended Miles last year after he proved me wrong. I haven't seen enough improvement this year, so my original feelings of doubt (from watching his teams perform, not from preconceived notions) have creeped back in.

But, so here again, lies the difficulty in the discussion. What does "improvement" mean to you? That the kids are "playing hard" "playing 'Perfectly'"?

It seems that the folks that call into question the job that coaches and players are doing are relying on some sense that these players need to be "here" in their minds. They want this, and seem to forget that we were 7-5 last year, our defense was ineffective, and we had a fair degree of uncertainty going into this season. We also had new coaches and new players throughout the line up. To be fair, the same things can be said of people who had low expectations going into te season--they are pleasantly pleased.

Sure we lost some close games this season, and didn't look "great" in the process. But, a win against LaTech SHOULD be appreciated when the likes of the great Saban has lost to ULM before. No win should be taken for granted in today's game. We also found a way to win at Georgia, did so against Arkansas. Games that could have very well left us in the same place as last year. So, you have to look to the W-L as improvements. I personally don't see the team as "not playing hard" but perhaps at times "not playing perfectly" or "not executing to the best of their ability". But, that's in part coaching and in part players' not executing. I think to argue that they should be executing 100% of the time, is to ignore the reality of sports, which is that it's an imperfect science. I guarantee that you can watch any coach, any team and find faults in their play. So, keep searching for perfection, I suppose.

I also as you say will be looking for "improvement", starting with the bowl game, although I'll be happy with a NY's win.

lsu-i-like · 12-22-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

quoting TGer'nLHornLand
Sure we lost some close games this season, and didn't look "great" in the process. But, a win against LaTech SHOULD be appreciated when the likes of the great Saban has lost to ULM before. No win should be taken for granted in today's game.

A lackluster win against LaTech does not impress me. Saban had his UAB at Bama with ULM (both in his first year at each respective program, right?); he deserves criticism for it but has turned things around since. The lackluster performance against LaTech wouldn't bother me as much if that type of play was an anomaly, but it was a season long phenomenon.

Quote:

What does "improvement" mean to you?

I like to see players play sharper as the season goes on, not make the same mistakes at the same frequency at the end of the season when compared to the start of the season. See the team "get it" at some point and play hard from that point on.

Quote:

It seems that the folks that call into question the job that coaches and players are doing are relying on some sense that these players need to be "here" in their minds. They want this, and seem to forget that we were 7-5 last year, our defense was ineffective, and we had a fair degree of uncertainty going into this season. We also had new coaches and new players throughout the line up. To be fair, the same things can be said of people who had low expectations going into te season--they are pleasantly pleased.

I remember how we played last year. Coming into the season I expected the defense to be well improved (I was correct) and I didn't think the offense could be worse (I was wrong). I didn't think we would groom Lee all last season for him to see sparse playing time this season. I'm disappointed in our misuse of the quarterbacks, I'm disappointed in our inability to utilize our talent at receiver (reminds me of the Dinardo era), I'm disappointed in our play at the line on both sides of the ball. I'm not real crazy about the bend don't break defense either, but I'll give Chavis the benefit of the doubt (like I gave Miles last year).

Someone else brought this topic up, but how many players are greater football players for having played at LSU under Miles tenure? What has Miles done in terms of football for his players that another coach wouldn't have? I can't think of many. Maybe Quinn Johnson? Maybe some of our tight ends? Perhaps some of our kickers?

Quote:

I think to argue that they should be executing 100% of the time, is to ignore the reality of sports, which is that it's an imperfect science. I guarantee that you can watch any coach, any team and find faults in their play. So, keep searching for perfection, I suppose. I also as you say will be looking for "improvement", starting with the bowl game, although I'll be happy with a NY's win.

I don't argue that our players should be perfect. I think I've said this quite a few times in this thread. I think they should strive for perfection. I think Miles and his team could stand to strive a little more for perfection.
Merry Christmas. I'm hoping for a well played bowl win, can accept a well played loss, don't want to see another skunk performance from LSU in either case. Is it fair to assume that if we play well and lose you will be upset since W/L's are the only thing that matters?

TGer'nLHornLand · 12-23-2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu-i-like

A lackluster win against LaTech does not impress me.

I like to see players play sharper as the season goes on, not make the same mistakes at the same frequency at the end of the season when compared to the start of the season. See the team "get it" at some point and play hard from that point on.

I didn't think we would groom Lee all last season for him to see sparse playing time this season. I'm disappointed in our misuse of the quarterbacks, I'm disappointed in our inability to utilize our talent at receiver (reminds me of the Dinardo era)

I'm disappointed in our play at the line on both sides of the ball.

Someone else brought this topic up, but how many players are greater football players for having played at LSU under Miles tenure? What has Miles done in terms of football for his players that another coach wouldn't have? I can't think of many.

I don't argue that our players should be perfect. I think I've said this quite a few times in this thread. I think they should strive for perfection. I think Miles and his team could stand to strive a little more for perfection.

Is it fair to assume that if we play well and lose you will be upset since W/L's are the only thing that matters?

I didn't say a close win against LaTech should impress you, just that you should appreciate it as a win, as opposed to a loss (like many a "good" coaches have had).

I don't think that you can generalize and say no players have improved as the season has gone on. I think JJ actually improved with certain things, like understanding of the option--to bad he was hurt in the middle of the season. You could argue that the O-Line improved as the season went on.

I see now... you wanted Lee to play more. Case in point on your logic. There was no mismanagement of the QBs... just young QBs still learning the game. JJ gave the Tigers a better chance to win.

Agree with you here... Line play wasn't its best. But, does this all fall on the coaching? We had new players on both lines. Arguably, here, there's some belief that Miles played more senior players before more talented kids behind them. Not sure of the validity of this, but at least acknowledge the fact that there are new players here, and perhaps some of these kids are not All-Pros like everyone assumes.

Again, this is a standard that is completely subjective. "Greater players" for playing at LSU/Miles? I'd gather that MOST of the kids who went to LSU under Miles' tenure actually enjoyed their time at LSU because of his leadership. As for who has improved? Well consider first the NFL draftees--the problem is you assume you "know" their baseline and "know" where they were "supposed" to end up. There's no telling who will get better or worse. You look at a kid like RP who completely played himself out of being a first round draft pick, is that on Miles or him? Plus, to really answer this question you really need to ask this question when folks like Chad Jones, Peterson, etc., get drafted. I suspect that many of Miles' high profile recruits will end up doing fine in the draft, and ultimately that's the measure of objective player football success. You could similarly argue look at what "Saban recruits" have done... did Jamarcus Russell "improve" while at LSU? Certainly LSU helped him make ALOT of $... but what did he learn from Jimbo and Saban?

Again, "strive for perfection" is in the eye of the beholder. Of course Miles and Staff are doing the best they can, and striving for perfection. To say that they're "not trying" is just being critical. They may make mistakes with player development, philosophies on the field or calls, but that's part of the game. Are they adapting/improving? I'd say that playing the way against Arkansas was improvement after a very bad loss at Ole Miss. I also expect them to play well against PSU, b/c it's a testament to Miles' staff, when given time to prepare for a bowl game, LSU has done well.

Yes, I look at wins losses. I will most certainly be disappointed if the Tigers lose in the bowl game. Them playing "very well" in a loss certainly makes the loss easier to swallow, but I'll still be disappointed. I can also say I'll be happier with a win, where they don't play great, than a loss where they play great.

red55 · 12-23-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu-i-like

Not everything was bad this season. I just think overall things are trending down. Being the cardiac kids against Ole Miss and Arkansas is one thing, but stumbling by the likes of LaTech is something else entirely. Under Saban, we usually had a dominant defense and every other year we had an effective offense.

Well, Nick lost to UAB when he was at LSU, that's worse than beating Louisiana Tech, ain't it? He had more 4- and 5-losses than Les, too. Since he's been at Bama, he's been beaten by Miss State and the University of Monroe Louisiana, which Les has never lost to. Every coach loses some that he's not supposed to, including Nick and including Les.

But Les gets less credit for winning than any coach I've ever seen. You're upset that we beat Louisiana Tech. Amazing.

BAY0U BENGAL · 12-23-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red55

But Les gets less credit for winning than any coach I've ever seen. You're upset that we beat Louisiana Tech. Amazing.

Actually, around here, Les gets NO credit for winning. When this team wins it's because of either/or:

1.) We were SUPPOSED to win
2.) Because of talent, not coaching
3.) The players won in spite of the coaching

I'm sure there are more. But that's the norm and it's b.s.

LEGACY TIGER · 12-23-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAY0U BENGAL

Actually, around here, Les gets NO credit for winning. When this team wins it's because of either/or:

1.) We were SUPPOSED to win
2.) Because of talent, not coaching
3.) The players won in spite of the coaching

I'm sure there are more. But that's the norm and it's b.s.

You forgot, he is the luckiest coach alive.

BAY0U BENGAL · 12-23-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEGACY TIGER

You forgot, he is the luckiest coach alive.

I knew there was an other one.

TGer'nLHornLand · 12-27-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGer'nLHornLand

But, if you believe the pursuit of the CFB NC is one of year after year dominance, guess again. NO program can win back to back to back championships and "utilize" to the fullest extent it's talent. Just ask Urban Meyer. Sure, he's won two national championships in a short period of time... but let's see how long it takes him to win another one. Perhaps he LEAVES before UF can win another one.

... Just as Miles to the same extent has brought consistency, if not facing a true "rebuilding" effort, to the LSU program. He's arguably also brought respectability, a program where players and coaches like to be in, and he's not a coach that is simply looking for the next jump like Saban was. There is more to the program then pure "coaching wattage" of the headman.

Mark my words, gentlemen. Mark my words.

Looks like Florida's going to have the opportunity to "upgrade" in coaching talent, and all of the naysayers can see how coaching upheaval affects a dominant program, eh?

lsu-i-like · 12-29-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

quoting TGer'nLHornLand

I didn't say a close win against LaTech should impress you, just that you should appreciate it as a win...

I do, which doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

Quote:

I don't think that you can generalize and say no players have improved as the season has gone on. I think JJ actually improved with certain things, like understanding of the option--to bad he was hurt in the middle of the season. You could argue that the O-Line improved as the season went on.

Neither Jordan Jefferson nor the offensive line have looked significantly improved, but that's just IMO.

Quote:

I see now... you wanted Lee to play more. Case in point on your logic. There was no mismanagement of the QBs... just young QBs still learning the game. JJ gave the Tigers a better chance to win.

I'm looking over the span of two years (since Perilloux left us in the lurch).

YEAR ONE: Play an inexperienced QB in Lee almost exclusively. Jefferson rarely sees the field.
YEAR TWO: Play an inexperienced QB in Jefferson almost exclusively. Lee rarely sees the field.

There is a problem there. You play both QBs, give them time on the field, time watching the game from the sidelines. You don't throw a QB to the fire to get experience only to play the QB who was on the bench all last season in lieu of the QB with experience. I won't argue that Lee is the best choice, only that both should have been brought along together.

Quote:

Agree with you here... Line play wasn't its best. But, does this all fall on the coaching? We had new players on both lines. Arguably, here, there's some belief that Miles played more senior players before more talented kids behind them. Not sure of the validity of this, but at least acknowledge the fact that there are new players here, and perhaps some of these kids are not All-Pros like everyone assumes.

Everything goes back to coaching, especially the head coach. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who were later chased out of town for one reason or another. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who either aren't capable of playing at a high level or who weren't sufficiently coached to perform at a high level. If he or his staff have a bad eye for talent and/or character, I damn sure do hold Miles to account. Likewise if he or his staff have issues developing good character/talent guys.

Quote:

[Arguing that players are greater] for playing at LSU... [or that Miles doesn't] "strive for perfection" is in the eye of the beholder.

That's true. My opinion is critical, yours is defensive.

I just can't think of many players who have excelled under Miles. I suppose you could say fullbacks Jacob Hester and Quinn Johnson. Linebackers under Chavis seem to have improved. we've had some pretty good tight ends under Miles. Who am I missing?

Quote:

Yes, I look at wins losses. I will most certainly be disappointed if the Tigers lose in the bowl game. Them playing "very well" in a loss certainly makes the loss easier to swallow, but I'll still be disappointed. I can also say I'll be happier with a win, where they don't play great, than a loss where they play great.

And happier still with a well played win, I guess. I just feel I'd rather lose playing great to a great opponent than win playing mediocre to a mediocre opponent. It is easier for me to accept that my opponent is great than it is to accept that my team is mediocre. Of course, I wouldn't want to always accept that my opponent is greater.

Another thing... I'm really confused at the line of reasoning that Miles is a professional and shouldn't be criticised by laymen. Do all of you who argue this point simply accept whatever your doctor tells you without critical reason? He is the professional and you are the layman, after all.

Quote:

quoting red55

Well, Nick lost to UAB when he was at LSU, that's worse than beating Louisiana Tech, ain't it? He had more 4- and 5-losses than Les, too. Since he's been at Bama, he's been beaten by Miss State and the University of Monroe Louisiana, which Les has never lost to. Every coach loses some that he's not supposed to, including Nick and including Les.

But Les gets less credit for winning than any coach I've ever seen. You're upset that we beat Louisiana Tech. Amazing.

Comparing Saban and Miles linearly is not reasonable. I never claimed that Saban is perfect. I was critical of Saban while he was here, I'm just more critical of Miles. What befuddles me is how so many can be so utterly uncritical of a coach. I guess we're just all along for the ride ultimately, so that is a more grounded approach, I suppose. "It's just great to be a tiger," I guess isn't the worst mindset. Maybe it is old age that's mellowed so many of you. That's very Buddhic of you all.

Quote:

quoting TGer'nLHornLand

Mark my words, gentlemen. Mark my words.

Looks like Florida's going to have the opportunity to "upgrade" in coaching talent, and all of the naysayers can see how coaching upheaval affects a dominant program, eh?

I don't think many Gators were calling for Meyer to retire. Let's be sure to give UF plenty of time to transition and defend thier coach every chance we get. One of my biggest issues concerning Miles is that if he were coach at another SEC program I wouldn't be real concerned about his ability to have his team playing at the highest level. As long as my team was well coached I'd feel like we should have a good shot at Miles.

How I'd feel at another SEC school about Les Miles...

VANDY - 0-2
We're Vandy and won't ever be on the same level as LSU unless LSU takes a nose dive circa the early 90s. Let's go study.

Moo U - 0-5
We've been sucking, but we had a moral victory this year and may be headed in the right direction with our new coach. I wanted to like Croom, but he never made us a NC contender. Jackie Sherill was one awesome rodeo clown. He got R done. Hopefully Mullen can get the cowbells ringing like Sherill used to.

UGA - 2-1
Richt doesn't make me real happy, but I'm pretty happy with the way we've played LSU under both Saban and Miles. But I'm ready for Richt to go. And put those damn black uni's out to roost.

UF - 3-2
I felt good about the direction of our program, particularly against LSU, until Meyer lost to Saban and started wigging out. I still feel like we're one of the best programs going, but I'm just not feeling as chompy as I used to at this particular point in time and space.

AU - 1-4
Tuberville was pretty good, but he lost big games (USC x 2, damn it) and had us playing some mediocre ball by the time we showed him the door. Not to mention the gris gris cast on him - went undefeated and got the nonBCS treatment. Then we go and hire Chizik in response to Bama's Saban. Damn it. Oh yeah, we keep losing to LSU, that sucks. I remember the days when that game was a back and forth battle.

BAMA - 2-3
Shula was not the answer. Saban has been spectacular despite hitting a few speed bumps his first year and Utah his second year. The Bear has been resurected as had been prophesied. All Roll Saban. LSU is on the way down now that Saban is gone.

Ole Miss - 2-3
I am so glad we fired that ogre Ogeron. Nutt has us playing pretty good, especially against LSU. I knew we weren't the runts Ogeron made us out to be. Today I drank a hotty toddy with ole Archie and his boys. Yum. (NOTE: This one particularly makes my skin crawl. -lil)

PIGS - 2-3
Oh lord, allow Petrino to make us relevant. It's been so long. At least we look like a real competitive team when we play LSU.

USC - 0-2
Neither Holtz nor Spurrier have enough spunk to make the nation have much respect for us. Maybe we should hire Holtz Jr, or leave for the ACC, or both.

UK - 1-1
We've fared decently against Miles on the gridiron. Football is an amusing diversion, but basketball is where it's really at. Tubby Smith and Gillispie don't have stink on sweet and smooth Calipari.

TENN - 1-2
I'm glad we finally stuck a krispy kreme in Fulmer, he was done a long time ago. Ole rocky top is a grand ole place for the derranged young Kiffin. His lunacy is a ruse to put us back on top of the East (see, it's already working on Meyer weiner).

ok awesome · 12-29-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsu-i-like

I do, which doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

Neither Jordan Jefferson nor the offensive line have looked significantly improved, but that's just IMO.

I'm looking over the span of two years (since Perilloux left us in the lurch).

YEAR ONE: Play an inexperienced QB in Lee almost exclusively. Jefferson rarely sees the field.
YEAR TWO: Play an inexperienced QB in Jefferson almost exclusively. Lee rarely sees the field.

There is a problem there. You play both QBs, give them time on the field, time watching the game from the sidelines. You don't throw a QB to the fire to get experience only to play the QB who was on the bench all last season in lieu of the QB with experience. I won't argue that Lee is the best choice, only that both should have been brought along together.

Everything goes back to coaching, especially the head coach. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who were later chased out of town for one reason or another. Miles is responsible for recruiting players who either aren't capable of playing at a high level or who weren't sufficiently coached to perform at a high level. If he or his staff have a bad eye for talent and/or character, I damn sure do hold Miles to account. Likewise if he or his staff have issues developing good character/talent guys.

That's true. My opinion is critical, yours is defensive.

I just can't think of many players who have excelled under Miles. I suppose you could say fullbacks Jacob Hester and Quinn Johnson. Linebackers under Chavis seem to have improved. we've had some pretty good tight ends under Miles. Who am I missing?

And happier still with a well played win, I guess. I just feel I'd rather lose playing great to a great opponent than win playing mediocre to a mediocre opponent. It is easier for me to accept that my opponent is great than it is to accept that my team is mediocre. Of course, I wouldn't want to always accept that my opponent is greater.

Another thing... I'm really confused at the line of reasoning that Miles is a professional and shouldn't be criticised by laymen. Do all of you who argue this point simply accept whatever your doctor tells you without critical reason? He is the professional and you are the layman, after all.

Comparing Saban and Miles linearly is not reasonable. I never claimed that Saban is perfect. I was critical of Saban while he was here, I'm just more critical of Miles. What befuddles me is how so many can be so utterly uncritical of a coach. I guess we're just all along for the ride ultimately, so that is a more grounded approach, I suppose. "It's just great to be a tiger," I guess isn't the worst mindset. Maybe it is old age that's mellowed so many of you. That's very Buddhic of you all.

I don't think many Gators were calling for Meyer to retire. Let's be sure to give UF plenty of time to transition and defend thier coach every chance we get. One of my biggest issues concerning Miles is that if he were coach at another SEC program I wouldn't be real concerned about his ability to have his team playing at the highest level. As long as my team was well coached I'd feel like we should have a good shot at Miles.

How I'd feel at another SEC school about Les Miles...

VANDY - 0-2
We're Vandy and won't ever be on the same level as LSU unless LSU takes a nose dive circa the early 90s. Let's go study.

Moo U - 0-5
We've been sucking, but we had a moral victory this year and may be headed in the right direction with our new coach. I wanted to like Croom, but he never made us a NC contender. Jackie Sherill was one awesome rodeo clown. He got R done. Hopefully Mullen can get the cowbells ringing like Sherill used to.

UGA - 2-1
Richt doesn't make me real happy, but I'm pretty happy with the way we've played LSU under both Saban and Miles. But I'm ready for Richt to go. And put those damn black uni's out to roost.

UF - 3-2
I felt good about the direction of our program, particularly against LSU, until Meyer lost to Saban and started wigging out. I still feel like we're one of the best programs going, but I'm just not feeling as chompy as I used to at this particular point in time and space.

AU - 1-4
Tuberville was pretty good, but he lost big games (USC x 2, damn it) and had us playing some mediocre ball by the time we showed him the door. Not to mention the gris gris cast on him - went undefeated and got the nonBCS treatment. Then we go and hire Chizik in response to Bama's Saban. Damn it. Oh yeah, we keep losing to LSU, that sucks. I remember the days when that game was a back and forth battle.

BAMA - 2-3
Shula was not the answer. Saban has been spectacular despite hitting a few speed bumps his first year and Utah his second year. The Bear has been resurected as had been prophesied. All Roll Saban. LSU is on the way down now that Saban is gone.

Ole Miss - 2-3
I am so glad we fired that ogre Ogeron. Nutt has us playing pretty good, especially against LSU. I knew we weren't the runts Ogeron made us out to be. Today I drank a hotty toddy with ole Archie and his boys. Yum. (NOTE: This one particularly makes my skin crawl. -lil)

PIGS - 2-3
Oh lord, allow Petrino to make us relevant. It's been so long. At least we look like a real competitive team when we play LSU.

USC - 0-2
Neither Holtz nor Spurrier have enough spunk to make the nation have much respect for us. Maybe we should hire Holtz Jr, or leave for the ACC, or both.

UK - 1-1
We've fared decently against Miles on the gridiron. Football is an amusing diversion, but basketball is where it's really at. Tubby Smith and Gillispie don't have stink on sweet and smooth Calipari.

TENN - 1-2
I'm glad we finally stuck a krispy kreme in Fulmer, he was done a long time ago. Ole rocky top is a grand ole place for the derranged young Kiffin. His lunacy is a ruse to put us back on top of the East (see, it's already working on Meyer weiner).

I feel much stupider for having read this.

lsu-i-like · 12-29-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok awesome

I feel much stupider for having read this.

For this the feeling is mutual but amplified.

I'm getting excited for the bowl game. Am I a glutton for punishment or an unconscious optimist?

fanatic · 12-29-2009, 05:06 PM

COulda, Shudda, Wudda. Texas won the game, so all is forgiven. Much ado about nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swerved

I think even if the game had ended, he wouldn't have caught as much crap as Miles has over the Ole Miss-take.

Could not disagree more. If Texas lost a shot at the NC because of that play, there's no way in hell Miles takes more heat.

12-22-2009, 03:48 AM	#81
stevescookin Certified Who Dat Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Covington ,La Posts: 3,518	Re: Interesting comparison Miles to Mack Brown There are "Miles haters" who are reasonable in their observations and there are "Sunshine pumpers who are genuinely concerned. Both camps are being objective. I know I'm concerned. The Ole Miss game made me want to puke. Russell Shepard not playing till late in the season and not yet throwing a pass just plain out makes me wonder. I just can't stand it when people just dismiss Miles' accomplishments cavalierly because it suits their position. I hate it when these people call for him to be fired in mid season like Zook. Saban left us in a mess. His defense was so complicated and depended on multiple players making correct reads that after the NC year, the backups had little experience doing this correctly and that's why we lost all those games. Saban was here long enough to realize that there's very little one can do to keep this fan base happy. I think that's part of why he jumped ship. Sure, he left us with some talent...but that talent was responsible for the five loss season. We have to look at the big picture. And the big picture is that despite our problems, we are on the upswing this year compared to last year. Maybe with the coaching changes last year and so far this year, we'll be truly better next year. Maybe the coaching changes aren't finished this year also.

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